Are you INSANE !?!!

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Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Tiplon » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:49 am

So, I was having a rather sedate evening last night. Let me try to set the scene for you.... I had come home from work, my lovily bride had a nice meal made, my two younger ones (12 and 7) were rather talkative about what had gone on during there day and were very excited about telling us. We enjoyed our meal, we all pitched in cleaning up from dinner while talking about different things from our days. Surprisingly very nice. I probably should have realized that there was something cosmically unbalanced when this happened, but I was a bit wrapped up in it.

After we cleaned up, we began our routine of signing school papers, looking over the over abundance of school pamplets that come home every day, reading a story or two, and getting kids ready for bed. Sounds good huh? Thats kind of what I was thinking.

Around about the time that I had sat down to login into WoW and see about the Casual Killers and St. Crispin's League on their respective servers, my 16 year old son comes home......

I stopped what I was doing to hear about his track practice and a dodgeball tournament that he had played that evening. He explained that they had lost and they played footbal at practice, blah, blah, blah. After this, I began to talk to him about how his grades were falling and that he still has not found a job yet to pay for the things that he is wanting to do..... wow, how the day turned.

After much back and forth and me loosing my temper because everything is everyone elses fault, we went into full meltdown. We just put too much pressure on him. Can you believe we would do such a thing. The nerve we have. Expecting him to work AND to keep his grades up. I mean, do we want him to not have a social life? Are we insane!

Needless to say, my bloodpressure is a bit high, I did not sleep well, and we are the worst parents that ever walked the planet. And there is wonder why beer is good?
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Re: Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Eraedan » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:24 am

I think it all depends on the kid, to be honest. Some teenagers just grow up faster than others. I never had a job during the school year until I was 17 or 18, and I worked part-time evenings for my friend's parents' catering company. That was maybe twice a week for like 4-5 hours each event.

The rule was that I had to have a job during the summers (mostly so my mom wouldn't take a baseball bat to my noggin). During the school year, it was my choice whether or not to have one. I had to support my coffee and nicotine addictions, so part-time job it was! :D

Also, you have to remember: he's 16, ergo he knows everything.
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Re: Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Rathskellar » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:00 am

I agree, every kid is hard-wired differently. My brother and I grew up in the same environment - hard working farm family with little money to spare. I was out before school starting at age 8 humping water buckets to horses, breaking ice, shoveling snow, feeding, cleaning stalls, and then right after school right back at it. Granted, I was not perfect, I was resentful sometimes and complained as I got older, but I still did it. I got a job after school at 15 and then when I was finished there it was back to the farm work, then homework, then fall into bed exhausted. My brother on the other hand, did everything he could to get out of work. He resisted doing meaningful work until he was about 12, and would be "sick" all the time, or hurt, or just disappear. Even later on he had trouble holding a job and never worked while he was in school. So don't blame yourself or feel guilty at his accusations, someday when he's older he will apologize when he realizes what a douche he's being. For now, immerse yourself in beer and wanton women to get yourself through it.
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Re: Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Eraedan » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:30 pm

That's too funny, Rath. My brother and I were the same. I always got stuck doing everything. I finally made my brother, when he was 13, mow the lawn. Now the lawn-mower was a riding mower as we had 2.2 acres. The little bastard took two passes before I kicked him off it. He drove the damn thing like a drunk. So far as I know, he has never mowed the lawn, cut hedges, raked, evened soil, hauled fill, etc. Meanwhile, my dad made me start mowing the lawn with our old electric mower as soon as I could reach the bar. I think I was 9. Younger siblings have all the luck.

(I'm older than my brother by 5 years, btw)

Back to what Rath said... He'll come around. He's just in that stage that my mom likes to call the asshole swap. "Someone took my baby away and replaced him with a shithead. And I have to wait 4 years to get my son back." heh True...
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"That can't be right, simply due to the fact that... well.... math is bad." -- Rhudd
*cringes in a corner as the Sphincter Of Tomorrow begins to pulse and then dilate, sending Sunday Spiders and Yesteryear Punters scurrying for the shadows of the evening as the fresh morning manure splatters down upon the garden of hope* -- Rathskellar
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Re: Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Tiplon » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:28 pm

immerse yourself in beer and wanton women


your only supposed to do that to get thru things? Man, that explains alot
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Re: Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Eraedan » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:38 am

Tip, your avatar reminds me of King Lear for some reason.

Tiplon wrote:your only supposed to do that to get thru things? Man, that explains alot


*shrugs* It's a personal choice, methinks. 8)
"People also like whores." -- Ennick
"That can't be right, simply due to the fact that... well.... math is bad." -- Rhudd
*cringes in a corner as the Sphincter Of Tomorrow begins to pulse and then dilate, sending Sunday Spiders and Yesteryear Punters scurrying for the shadows of the evening as the fresh morning manure splatters down upon the garden of hope* -- Rathskellar
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Re: Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Roxi » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:13 pm

Heya Tip. I tell my kids they will have to get jobs as soon as their old enough so that they can start saving up to pay for all the therapy in their twenties during which they will blame me for everything that could possibly be wrong with them. :twisted:
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Re: Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Phardaxia » Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:03 pm

I wasn't the best student in school but I loved to explore extra ciriculur activities. I had no clue what to do with my life (still working on that too) and I was trying to figure out who I was as a person.

Then at 15, my father tells me I had to get a job. I wasn't opposed to it but I wasn't looking forward to it. You see there is very little "you"time in life. Time that you can designate to do what you want to do and not what you HAVE to do. I have always said that you become an adult when what you HAVE to do outweighs what you WANT to do.

Baring lotto wins, Your kid is destined to work the rest of his life. More then likely in a job he doesn't like for a salary that isn't worth his time. His remaining years of adolecense shouldn't be stolen by some $6 an hour job that will teach him very little in the grand scheme of things.

As most have said, people are different and want different things, but his "job" is school right now. I am sure you would agree that is the most important.
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Re: Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Tiplon » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:54 pm

An interesting take on this that you have there. I don't disagree that school is the most important thing right now, but I do not agree with the thought process around not getting a job. Part of growing up is learning the responsibilities that you must have in life. Introducing those responsibilities in small portions at a time, I believe is the most fair to the kids. That is if you have the means to be able to do so. The lesson of the terrible boss, the job you hate, the schedule you cannot stand, having to go to work instead of doing that thing that everyone else is doing that you really want to do badly, are all lessons to be learned. I believe the best time to learn those is when you are a teenager and have the things you "need" provided for and are not at risk of losing those if you quit or get fired. Once they are out of the house they are on their own and the world is tough out there. I want to arm them to the best of my abilities before they are out from under my wing.

What you said about “you” time is very true, but it is the truth of how things are. I believe that having my kids get a part time job when they become juniors in high school is a stepping stone to help them become successful in life. I am saying that they need to work 10-15 hours a week for the experience only, the pay is irrelevant. But, I am surely not saying that I have all the answers for I know I don’t. I am just trying to do the best that I can for my family and their future.

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Re: Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Phardaxia » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:56 am

I do believe those are valuable lessons. Don't get me wrong. It's good to learn early how much of a dick your boss will be. To me it's about hedging bets. If you support your child through school (not that you don't, more of a grandiose statement) , they will be more likely to succeed.

I loved school. Let me rephrase that. I loved college... and at one point I was working 3 jobs just to sustain myself. Sure my parents provided the basics for me, but at that time I thought I needed more. When the time came to choose between work and school, I chose the more practical "well I need money" and not the more lofty "well I need to finish this in 4 years". For kids time is an endless burden that seems like it will never end. If they are allowed to be instantly gratified, more then likely they will take that, because well they are kids.

What I would suggest, is try to find them a job in something they love or possibly do in their life. There are lots of opportunities out there for internships and what not. That way they would learn the responsibility, and enrich their knowledge as well.

I know it may sound weird, but I think people get too caught up in the rat race of life early and they never find their way off that track. Of course then they go through mid life turmoil and wonder what the hell happened... etc.

What are his interests? Does he have an idea of a field he wants to work in or anything?
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Re: Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Wraili » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:32 am

I agree with Tip.

Then again, I had a job from the time I was a junior in HS also. I did get an allowance from my dad ($20 a week), and I did have chores around the house as well. The allowance was not tied to chores, but was "walkin' around money". Getting the job was so I could buy the label clothes I wanted, books and music, concert tickets, and go eat at restaurants with my friends. My schedule was 3pm to 10pm, three nights a week at Target. I would work less when I was in after school activities (like the fall play), but during the summer and school breaks I would up my hours to over 30 hours a week. Then again, Prom was a $400 night.

The chores I had were things like mowing the lawn (with a push mower), shovelling snow (dad finally bought a snow blower after my brother and I moved out - hehehehe), and the various things we were doing on a weekly basis to remodel the house. Like hauling shingles up to the roof of a two story house. Sheetrocking the addition, then mud and tape. I was the one who got to dig a foot wide trench, three feet deep, from the back of the house to the garage so we could run a 220 line for the arc welder. Then I got to learn how to use an arc welder to take apart the old heating oil drum from the basement and turn it into scrap to be sold to a recycler.

I know someone of the "entitlement generation". (Did you know that is what they are calling this group of 20-somethings now? Not "Generation X", or anything like that...) At the age of 26 he is still pissed that his parents did not pay for his college. Never mind the fact that they did not pay for college for any of his siblings. Any time his father spends some of his retirement money on a vacation or trip to Laughlin NV, I get to hear about how unfair it all is - as if his father's sole purpose in life is to give everything to his children and have nothing to enjoy for himself after a long life of hard work.

Having a job in HS is a way to learn the true value of a dollar (time & effort), lessons in patience, persistence, organization, interpersonal skills (you will have to work with people you don't like!), develop a work ethic, and realize that for much of the rest of your life someone else will have control over you for 8 to 10 hours a day. Piss in the wrong person's Wheaties, and you may not only lose your job, but also your home or car when you cannot make payments. A taste of that is good for a soon-to-be-adult. It allows them to prepare for what the real world is like, and also gives them a grasp of what their parents have gone through since they were born. It's when you are 16-17-18 that you start to look at your parents as people you can be friends with. It helps if you can respect them.
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Re: Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Rathskellar » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:44 am

I think if you have the means to help them get jobs or internships in fields they have interest in, then by all means go that direction. But I think that whole instant gratification thing will bite them (or you) on the ass. The vast majority of kids in high school simply aren't that concerned with the future. It exists in a general sense and the majority keep their wheels on the road to get there, but I doubt that most know what they want out of life until well into college and after in a lot of cases. Therefore, they are looking for the means to enjoy themselves or get the clothes they want etc. as Wraili said. So I think the jobs at Target, or Shop-Rite etc. where they learn how to deal with the grind, physical labor, etc. is the best avenue for at least a year during high school, so they know what that side of life is like even if they end up working in the ivory tower later. Try to break that "entitlement" spell early on.
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Re: Are you INSANE !?!!

Postby Eraedan » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:54 am

Phardaxia wrote:For kids, time is an endless burden that seems like it will never end.

That is exceptionally well said.
"People also like whores." -- Ennick
"That can't be right, simply due to the fact that... well.... math is bad." -- Rhudd
*cringes in a corner as the Sphincter Of Tomorrow begins to pulse and then dilate, sending Sunday Spiders and Yesteryear Punters scurrying for the shadows of the evening as the fresh morning manure splatters down upon the garden of hope* -- Rathskellar
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